Recently Pastor Rick Warren, best know for being the author of "The Purpose Driven Life" book appeared on Comedy Central on the Colbert Report. First off, I didn't think that this was the best forum for a Christian to appear on, but I thought, hey, we're supposed to go out into the highways and byways and bring people to Christ, so why not. (To view the interview yourself, you can probably find it at http://www.comedycentral.com/ or through a search at http://www.google.com/ but, for me personally, I first ran acrost it at http://www.alittleleaven.com/)
Once the interview got started Steven Colbert asked Pastor Warren if he is a Fundamentalist Christian. Well, Rick didn't even have to think about that one, he said, "No. A Fundamentalist is someone who has stopped listening." He then went on to compare Fundamentalist Christians to Fundamentalist Muslims, Jews, Secularists, and a few others. I was somewhat taken aback by this given that I've always considered myself to be a Fundamentalist Christian, so now, I had to find out for myself.
First I visited http://www.dictionary.com/ and looked up the definition of "Fundamentalist" and this is what I found: –noun
1.(sometimes initial capital letter) a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming.
2.the beliefs held by those in this movement.
3.strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles.
So, being very glad to have that all cleared up for me I said, good, so I was right, I am a Fundamentalist, just as I suspected. Of course, this brings up the next part of this question, if Rick Warren isn't a Fundamentalist Christian, what is he? Does he believe in those things listed above? Does he strictly adhear to our basic Christian beliefs? These are questions worth asking, and a lot of them, I don't have answers for right now, but if I find them, I would think that I'll be sharing them with you.
Back to the interview. One obvious question from Colbert was about what our purpose in life is. Now, if I remember correctly from reading Rick's book, I think that he said our purpose was to Worship God. Not something I would argue with, being that I did think that the book was written to Christians. However, that's not what he told Colbert. He said that our purpose in life is to be ourselves. He said that God is happy when he see's us being ourselves, and gave the example of watching his kids sleep, and seeing their chests rise and fall as they slept, and that this made him really happy, because he made them. Of course, I thought God made them, but then, this answer kind of gave me pause because I really felt that he was answering a question about how God felt about something by telling how he felt about it, which, at least in my mind, seemed like he was putting himself equal with God. I'm sure he didn't actually mean it that way, at least, I really hope not, but that's how it came across to me.
Anyway, I was curious about that answer too, is God happy with people just being themselves? Jer 17:9 says, "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Which, I'm thinking, isn't going to lead us to do things that make God happy. Certainly he doesn't like when are deceitful and do desperately wicked things, but, having been born with a sin nature, that is who we are. So, no, I don't think God is happy with us just being us, nor can we say that our purpose is just being ourselves. This also brings up the point that a great many of the people that were in the Colbert audience, both in the studio and at home, were not Christians, so, can someone who doesn't have faith in Jesus Christ be pleasing to God? No. Hebrews 11:6(a) says, "But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]..." so the message here was, at best, incomplete.
What would have been a worthy thing to speak about would have been repentance. Unfortunately, that's not a fun, or funny, thing to talk about. However, the truth of the matter is that it is our highest calling. In what we have come to call the Great Commision, Jesus says this in Matthew 28:18-20, "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen." Which I think is pretty clear. Nowhere I have found the Bible to say that we are to come up with our own Philosophy that makes everyone feel that they are good enough, and that God loves them just as they are, so that they can feel that they have nothing to repent from, and end up going to Hell. In fact, I'm pretty sure that is the oposite of what we are supposed to do.
Warren never mentioned getting saved, or believing in Christ, all he talked about was being oursleves. Being who God created us to be. Unfortunately, who God created us to be is something that we cannot do while we are enslaved to our sin nature. Nor can we be saved without repentance and fully trusting in Jesus Christ and his completed work on Calvary. John 3:3 says, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." And Romans 10:11-17 says, "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
It seems to me that Rick didn't want to make people feel bad by talking about their sins. He wanted people to feel good, and probably felt that he was sharing something good with them. Unfortunately he was not Preaching the Gospel of Peace. As most of you know, I'm sure, the Gospel is The Good News. In fact, it's the absolute Best News that we could ever share with anyone. But as good and wonderful as the Gospel is, it starts with the fact that people are sinners and need to repent. Without the knowledge that one is a sinner, there is no feeling on the part of that one that they need to repent.
Also, if you watch this interview you will see that Warren also told Colbert that we are here to practice for the afterlife so we won't be "a doofus" when we get there. So, I was wondering exactly where he got this from, so I went to http://www.blueletterbible.org/ and searched for the word "doofus" in every single version of the Bible that they have there (and they have quite a few) and found that it doesn't appear anywhere in any version of the Bible that I know of, so I wasn't able to get an answer to that one... sorry.
Seriously though, I invite, and in fact, strongly encourage comments on this post. (I always invite comments, but on this post especially.) If anyone has anything to add, or if you see where I have said something that is not supported by the Scriptures, please let me know. The last thing that I want to do is spread falsehoods, so please, don't be bashful.
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9 comments:
Hey man. Well this is a blog I will respectfully disagree with. I am not a disciple of Rick Warren, and the PDL book is not the Bible. I am a follower and believer in Christ. I've heard Rick Warren several times, and every time, I walk away thinking about my Savior. I grew up under pastors my whole life, and walked away thinking about how bad the world is and getting mad at people who don't believe the same as me, and I basically missed God. The analogy of him and his kids painted a great picture for me of God's unconditional love for us, and that we don't have to impress him to get His attention. Zephaniah 3:17 speaks of His involvement in our life. I would say he could have said more about Jesus, but they probably wouldn't have allowed him on the show. So, do you take opportunities to reach the masses under their stipulations, or do you stay in your sphere of influence under your terms? Billy Graham is a wonderful example of someone who has been praised by Christians in his life, and then bashed for giving counsel to the Clinton's in their marriage. Rick Warren is not Billy Graham, by any means, but he's reaching people for Christ all over the world, and he's gonna mess up, because he's a man. He's probably not going to say everything we want him to say in those golden opportunities. I've seen other high profile pastors actually avoid the deity of Christ on national TV, but Rick Warren acknowledged Jesus coming into our lives when Colbert asked him, and he has done great things, in God's power, in the name of Christ.
I don't think he's a bad guy or out of God's will. I think he's doing the best he can. I've actually spent time with his staff, and their church is a very God-fearing, people-loving church. They are grounded in God's Word.
The great example he's giving us is that he in the world, but not of it, and there's a lot of people that have just left the world and given up on it.
Hey Gary,
Thanks for the comment. I do value your opinion, and appreciate your view. One thing I have to point out is, you said you have spent time with his staff, which gives you an insight I don't have, and I was only talking about this one interview, so if it came across that I was trying to destroy the man, then I am sorry about that.
After reading your comment, and viewing the video again (and don't get me wrong, I watched it 3 times before I wrote the original post) I was overly critical of the part about watching his kids sleeping, but I was honest in reporting my original impression... but I am totally willing to admit that my initial impression could be wrong.
Again, I did not set out to find bad things about Rick Warren, so don't think that is what this post was about, it's not, it's about this one interview.
For me, I still strongly disagree with him on the issue of Fundamental Christians, and I don't think he should have made that statement without any qualifiers, other than to speak negatively of Fundamentalist Christians. I understand that he was not given much time with most of his answers, but he is just as accountable for that being that he knew what Colbert was all about going in. I can't say that the stuff he said was untrue, but a lot of it was not the whole truth, which can be worse than actual falsehoods.
I think that we need to look at this from the prespective that he was speaking, primarily, in front of Non-Christians. Had he made most of those statements to Christians, I wouldn't have such a hard time with it, because we understand when we only hear part of it, and can fill in the rest, for those who don't already have a real familiarity with Christianity, they would not have gotten a good picture of it from that interview.
Obviously if someone leaves you angry because people believe something else, there isn't much value in that, but it is important that we understand why beliefs that are contrary to Scripture are wrong. Admittedly, I haven't heard the man give an acutal sermon, but like I said, I was only talking about this one interview, and I have to say, it really was a bad interview, and while going into a secular interview is fine, in the right format, I still don't think that it was a good idea to go into this forum where the whole point is to rip apart people and their beliefs and make them look foolish.
Also, I did not write this post willy-nilly, but rather, I talked it over with some other Christians who had seen the video, and while we differed a little on a few things, in general, we all agreed that this was a bad interview.
Also, I'm fairly sure that Zephaniah 3:17 speaks of the restoration of the Tribulation Saints following the Second Comming of Christ.
Anyway, I do truly hope that you are correct, and that his ministry is totally Biblically based, but that did not come across here. I think that if you will be unable to tell the whole truth, and will leave the wrong impression of Christianity, then it would be better not to go.
Regarding Billy Graham, I can't see him allowing himself to be put in the possition where he could get trounced without being able to answer fully.
I will say, I do give him credit for stating the the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and that Jesus will save you if you call out to Him. I do at least thank him for that.
I agree about the fundamentalist statement. I forgot to say that. I assume he doesn't want to be lumped into the world's view of fundamentalists, which is close-minded. Again, that's the world's view. Obviously, we are not close-minded fundamentalists, but unfortunately they're out there. I think he was wrong to totally denounce the label. It would be interesting to hear him explain that more, and see why he said that. A guy like that usually understands everything he's talking about. I saw another blog online talking about this, and their take was that he did all right, considering the forum wasn't even remotely conducive to the topic. With that said, yes, it was a risky move to go on that show. Hopefully, people will read the PDL book out of curiosity, and find God. Good discussion, though. Very thought provoking.
What would have been a worthy thing to speak about would have been repentance. Unfortunately, that's not a fun, or funny, thing to talk about. However, the truth of the matter is that it is our highest calling. In what we have come to call the Great Commision, Jesus says this in Matthew 28:18-20, "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen." Which I think is pretty clear.
the only thing that's clear is that the passage you quoted doesn't even mention repentance...
hate it when that happens.
mike rucker
http://mikerucker.wordpress.com
Welcome Mike,
It's pretty simple here.
"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."
Repentance is one of those things. I appologize if I failed to spell this out completely and made it confusing for some.
Matt
well, matt, you made me pause and think a bit. good job.
perhaps it's like a contnuum with DO on one end and DON'T on the other. we should start DOing good things and turn from things we shouldn't do - ie, repent, to turn. yet another instance where it's not either/or but both/and.
wouldn't you say that the church's message has been heard as a series of DON'Ts over the centuries - don't drink, don't smoke, don't dance, don't touch yourself there -to the detriment of its great message of DOs: love God, love your neighbor, do unto others, go into all judea?
most people get cynical as they grow older - somehow i was a cynic when i was young and now all of a sudden i'm pollyanna...
mike rucker
http://mikerucker.wordpress.com
Hi Matt!
You are the recipient of The Thinking Blogger Award!
Congratulations! Keep fighting the good fight through faith in Jesus Christ!
Sincerely,
Christine
Mike,
Personally, I don't think that the don'ts are the problem. The problem is how the don'ts have been presented.
The Bible clearly defines some things as being sin. For us to run away, and shy away from calling those things sin, is not going to accomplish anything, but telling people who do not believe in Christ that they need to stop doing these things, without presenting it in a proper way, isn't going to do much either.
Repentance in Critical, you can find that thread through a great deal of the Scriptures. God's love is best shown through his Forgiveness of sins, and without acknowledgement of sins, there can be no repentance.
I can agree that many Christians over the years have seemed to have forgotten about the do's, which is also bad, but you can justify ignoring sin by saying that people in the past have over-emphasized it. Even though people have made mistakes in presentation over the years, the Truth of God has not changed.
Christine,
Thank you very much. That means a lot to me.
I don't know that there are 5 blogs that I read on a regualar basis, but give me a little time to think about this.
Thanks again,
Matt
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